Ministering to the sheep of the flock through interviews

For many years from at least 1982 there was emphasis on the three-fold mission of the Church and I sensed somewhat of a compartmentalisation by some leaders, and by myself, of Proclaiming the Gospel, Perfecting the Saints, and Redeeming the Dead.

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While serving as a ward mission leader in about 1994, some 12 years later, I was taught by the Spirit as I worked with the Member Progress Record. Details were recorded for a new or returning member of how they were taught the basic gospel principles, helped to receive a temple recommend so that they could perform baptisms for the dead as soon as possible, guided to research their family history so that they could provide ordinances for their relatives or others beyond the veil, and then getting them ready to go to the temple once they received a recommend for living ordinances after being a member for at least a year. I realised that as a ward mission leader, focused on Proclaiming the Gospel, I was actually involved in one work and not three separate missions (what in the business world might have been described as three 'silos').

As we teach basic principles to the prospective, new or returning member, we are proclaiming the gospel. This leads naturally to perfecting the saints as we prepare them to be worthy to enter the house of the Lord and issue a temple recommend to do baptisms and to later receive an endowment from the Lord. Then, as they can only do an ordinance once for themselves, every time that they return and perform baptisms, initiatory, endowment or sealing ordinances, they will do them in behalf of a deceased individual, thus redeeming the dead. As they serve as proxy for someone else, the Spirit will give them further insight regarding the ordinance, or the gospel, that will continue to proclaim the gospel to the individual, perfect the member as a saint, and redeem someone beyond the veil. All part of one journey.

I am always impressed that while interviewing a youth or adult - whether a new or returning member - to serve in a responsible calling, it is an ideal time to reassess their foundation by conducting a temple recommend interview and, hopefully, issuing a temple recommend if they do not have a valid one. If they are not worthy to be handed a temple recommend, they will have been searching their soul and the Spirit will have been touching their heart.

The temple recommend interview is not a chimney pot to put on once the building is complete, but part of establishing the foundation. I appreciated a comment by brother Taona Jiri as I mentioned this to him as a member of the bishopric during my recent interview to renew my own temple recommend. He suggested that this helps to make sure that the chimney is well built and that smoke does not spread through the building. The member will feel the Spirit very strongly as the leader works through each and every question, not stopping at one where they 'fail', but working faithfully on strengthening the entire foundation. Then, in the following interview by president Emmanuel Danso of the stake presidency, he pointed out that the temple recommend details are now available for all the world to see and they can then look at Emmanuel Danso, or Les Powrie, and say - I know your Church, the standards, and that you have a temple recommend and so I can expect you to be this kind of person. What an opportunity to be a light, leaven or salt in the community!

Perhaps if you are interviewing a brother for welfare needs, someone who is dependent on Zion, if you reviewed the ten commandments or the thirteen articles of faith with him, it would help him to become less dependent and move towards being independent, then onwards to being interdependent and building Zion. Is being dependent maybe telestial, becoming independent could be terrestrial, and interdependent, the opposite of dependent, or building Zion is perhaps celestial? Perhaps the reason that Moses was instructed to not accommodate any blasphemers, breakers of the law of the Sabbath or chastity in the Camp of Israel was because they were like parasitic cancerous cells that needed to be removed, not mollycoddled. He took people who were dependent on the fleshpots of Egypt and was trying to build them to be independent and then to go into the promised land that was similar to the desert-like Karoo, through which we drove every year with our family to get to the Johannesburg temple, to the point that they would make their promised land desert to blossom as the rose, building a Zion or more Celestial community. See a summary of Covey:

"Acquiring the seven habits of effectiveness takes us through the stages of character development. Habits 1 through 3 make up the “private victory” - where we go from dependence to independence by taking responsibility for our own lives. Acquiring habits 4 through 6 is our “public victory”: Once independent, we learn to be interdependent, to succeed with other people. The seventh habit makes all the others possible - periodically renewing ourselves in mind body, and spirit."

I love the story of a sister who was not living the word of wisdom and so was not given her temple recommend, but she returned to her bishop about two weeks later saying that she was now ready to have the interview again because she realised that the word of wisdom was not the problem. I guess that we often address symptoms and ignore the underlying problems and a temple recommend interview can help the member to feel the Spirit guiding them to sort out problems and the symptoms will then go away by themselves as the member adjusts course. I would often challenge a member to change and put in place something that was not in order, and if they were willing to commit to repent, I would seek the confirmation of the Spirit that I could give them a recommend based on their commitment rather than on their track record, or set a time within a few days or weeks for me to do so.

I recently realised that someone preparing to receive a patriarchal blessing is required to be worthy to hold a temple recommend. I then learned through the whispering of the Spirit that they, or I, cannot fully benefit from the patriarchal blessing as the years pass unless we remain as worthy to read it as we needed to be to receive it.

When the member is in any interview, the leader can help them to consider their next step like priesthood, patriarchal blessing, or temple. The leader thus gets to discuss these with them at the same time as the Spirit is touching their hearts.

I love the opportunity that is stressed now that no adult should be alone teaching children or youth, but should be accompanied by either a spouse or a member of the same gender. I am concerned that some feel that this is not feasible, impractical, or a nuisance. But what better opportunity is there to give a new or returning member the opportunity to relearn the basic gospel principles as he or she hears it taught to children or youth? Before long he or she will be ready to participate in the teaching, and maybe even to teach a lesson or two. This is strengthening their spiritual foundation. What a simple solution to our ongoing problem of people not attending their meetings! We are giving them a real reason to prioritise being at their meetings while giving them a chance to fill an essential but non-threatening position and they are being strengthened and blessed by being there. I love our prophetic leadership in the Lord's work.

Blessings on our ward and organisation leaders as they serve as true under-shepherds to the Lord's children in these simple and foundational activities of ministering to the sheep of their flock through taking opportunities for doing things such as inviting members to participate in interviews. Members of a bishopric can conduct temple recommend interviews, but other organisation leaders can invite members to an interview where they discuss simple and basic topics using the temple recommend questions as a basis, not to determine worthiness, but to help the member to feel the Spirit that will change their hearts and bring them closer to the Lord. Perhaps an interview conducted by a Young Women president will be a real contributing landmark in the life of a young a sister that helped her to be ready to receive a Temple Recommend to marry in the Temple. We might often be the leaven in the loaf that makes a significant difference in someone's testimony and we may never even realise what an impact that action of ours had, but I have a special conviction that the Lord will know, and He will bless us eternally for our simple efforts.

Some thoughts regarding callings as we embark on the course of forming a new stake

Today we experienced the splitting of the Cape Town South Africa Stake of Zion to form the Bellville South Africa Stake of Zion.

I am amused that the Cape Town Stake does not include Cape Town, and the Bellville stake includes both Cape Town and Bellville.

Yesterday, as I was working on installing a door, I had one of my sessions of scripture study without any scriptures in my hands. These can be among my most powerful study sessions as my hands are busy weeding or doing things and my brain is studying the scriptures that I have in my memory banks. I was pondering a theme that has been on my mind for a few days, anticipating a possible call for me to be interviewed for the organisation of the stake. Here are some of the thoughts that went through my mind.

I wonder how many of us would call someone who really was prejudiced and rebellious to serve a mission? But the Lord called Jonah to go and preach the Gospel in Nineveh. Jonah really did not care for the people of Nineveh. He ran off in the opposite direction. When he realised that his decision was threatening the lives of other people on the ship on which he was trying to escape his assignment, he had them throw him overboard. We might say to ourselves that he really was not appropriate for our mission objectives and give up on him and call someone else, but the Lord sent a great fish to help Jonah to shore, and to give him some time to reflect and repent.

Well, Jonah did go and preach, and was successful, but he was miserable because his prejudice made him not want to share his exclusive club of salvation in the Kingdom of God with the people of Nineveh who he really did not like. So he sulked and moaned and whined. And the Lord continued to be patient with him, trying to get him to rise to his potential for greatness.

Another example – would we call someone who to promote the work was really working hard to interfere with the Work of Salvation? Would we call someone who was really not worthy of a Temple Recommend to serve? The Lord sent an angel to a group of youths who were on their way to disrupt the Church. He called them to serve as his missionaries. He called them to repent. He gave Alma the Younger three days’ time for repenting, during which time his heart was harrowed up so that it would be prepared for the service to which he had been called. Would we say – ‘no, he is not worthy’ and look for someone else, or would we take the risk with someone and call him and let him decide whether or not he will repent and accept the challenge to become softened and worthy of a Temple Recommend? I argue that the Lord does not wait for people to wander into worthiness – he challenges them up-front and that makes the difference in their lives.

Another interesting case is an avowed enemy of the Church – not even a member, someone who is going off to persecute the Saints. But the Lord sent an angel to call Saul of Tarsus and let him recognise that it is hard to kick against the pricks. He let Saul repent, and then sent the member of the local unit. This member, presumably a leader, was really hesitant, and asked the Lord if He knew who this man was and what he had been doing to the Saints? I mean, really – he was a bad oke! But the Lord reassured Ananias that this was his work and that Saul was a chosen vessel. And Saul rose to the occasion.

I have heard many stories of people called who really were not worthy at the time for their calls, but who put their lives in order and became worthy, and were commendable in the way that they magnified their callings. Elder Ted R. Callister spoke in the October 2013 General Conference about calling an unworthy man as a stake clerk in the Glendale stake. I remember in the book The Challenge from my mission days 1973-1975 I can’t find the book and cannot recall the author), about a stake president visiting a less active brother who would not return to Church because he did not approve of his bishop and others. The stake president challenged this brother to attend ward conference the next day to sustain his new bishop. Upon being asked who that would be, he was told “You!” Was he worthy to hold a Temple Recommend? No. Did he very promptly become worthy? Yes. And he served excellently as the bishop.

I remember Robert Sackley, a regional representative, telling of how he was called as bishop of half of a ward that was divided. The leaders had proposed a dividing line that would split the ward evenly in terms of active members. But the authorities used a different dividing line such that when the ward was divided one half that was predominantly less active and he was called to preside over that half. Within a year his ward was more active than the other ward. How could that be without him having called unworthy people to lead? And did that call not bring them into activity because of the challenge?

I have long felt that the Temple Recommend interview can be a very powerful spiritual experience. If a member is invited in, and all questions asked, right up to ‘Do you consider yourself worthy to participate in the ordinances of the Temple?’ they can feel the Spirit and realise what in their lives is not in harmony with the Gospel. It does not have the same impact if one stops after three questions and says “Oh no, you won’t qualify” and stop there. I also feel to start the interview with reminding the member that I am simply asking the questions on behalf of the lord, and that their answers are given to the Lord, not just to me. It is also sometimes appropriate to remind them that the Lord knows the answer to each and every question, but asks because we need to experience of accounting for our lives. I am struck by the fact that the Lord knows all things, but he asked Cain “Where is thy brother Abel?” He asked the woman who touched the skirt of His garment “Who touched me?” He asked Peter “Lovest thou me?” And He asked that three times! But Peter needed to answer more than the Lord needed to ask.

I have also witnessed the power of going through all thirteen Articles of Faith and after reciting each ask “Now, what do you believe?” I insist that they declare what they do believe, not what they do not believe. That brings a powerful spirit into the room and can bring about a life-changing experience.

I remember about 1970 or so my sister Judy telling of a sister (the daughter of the mission president at the time) who told of a powerful call to serve. I have often reflected on that as I have interviewed people to issue a call to serve. I have realised that it is essential to lay a solid foundation before the person being interviewed knows anything about a call. I schedule the interview with adequate time to discuss their lives, their interests, their talents, their time and family commitments and during all of this process I am seeking the confirmation of the Spirit that this call is right for them. If I do not get that confirmation the interview is ended without the person knowing why there was an interview. However, if I do get that confirmation then I am absolutely confident in saying “The Lord wants you to serve as such-and-such” and I have almost never had someone decline a calling when following this process. But I have been in interviews where the first words are “We want to call you to such-and-such a position” and somehow the spirit is just not as strong as when it is without doubt a call from the Lord.

Our two stakes need to grow. We can grow. May the Lord bless us to have a powerful Spirit about us so that we can rise to the level and potential that He wants us to achieve!